Business Reflections Podcast Episode #35 - Feedback in the Workplace with Dr. Kelly Waltman
Episode Transcript
Meredith Matics: Welcome to Business Reflections with your host Meredith Matics, and we are here to reflect on the business topics that are affecting you today and how you can better run your business. I'm here with Kelly Waltman, Founder and CEO of SLR Leadership.
Dr. Kelly Waltman: Hi, how are you?
Meredith Matics: Good. We're really excited today to have you on to talk about workplace culture and feedback of the workplace but let's go back one step. What got you into starting your own company and starting SLR Leadership?
Dr. Kelly Waltman: Yeah. Thanks Meredith. Of course everything's a long journey, right? But the shortest answer would be that I have had the benefit in my life of having some amazing leaders. I mean those people that, and hopefully everybody can relate, they've had at least one person in their life, whether it's a coach, a mentor, or a boss, somebody that just inspires you. They make you feel like you can take on the world and they challenge you in good ways. It's awesome. I've had leaders like that and I've had the polar opposite. I've had unfortunately very toxic leadership that leaves you throughout your workday questioning everything. You carry that home with you. It causes anxiety and I'd get a pit in my stomach when I'd have to talk to that person.
So I really just, I felt so inspired to help individuals who go into these leadership positions. So often, people are promoted into positions because they're really good at their jobs and then they're not given the tools to be leaders. It's an entirely different skill set to go from being really good at what you do to being really good at leading and inspiring other people to do what you used to do. That was really the beginning kind of impetus for me to take this on.
I've always been an educator and a trainer and a leader. Since founding the company, I can still do some of that new leader coaching, but now, as you mentioned, you were talking about workplace culture. That's really my focus now is still helping leaders, but helping business owners and executives understand that importance of workplace culture and communication. Communication really is at the heart of everything and that's just such an essential component to employee team and company success.
Meredith Matics: Let's talk a little bit about what workplace culture really is, because I think for certain generations, they think of it as the Googles with the ping pong tables and the parties and things like that. Where others of us may think it's the general vibe of the office. Are we a casual office or we a formal office. What is workplace culture?
Dr. Kelly Waltman: Yeah. I mean, there are so many ways that you can define and conceptualize that. I don't know that there really is one right way or one key way. For me, when I think about workplace culture, it really is about the connection between the team members and between leadership. How connected does everyone feel to one another? How connected do they feel to leadership? How connected do they feel to the why of the company? The mission, the vision, the purpose of why they're doing what they're doing. How connected does everyone feel to all those different components and all of that together is going to make up the culture - the way that people communicate with one another, the way they interact with one another, the way they work together to accomplish whatever the goal of the company is, how they all work together to achieve that common purpose. That to me is what I think of and what I'm referring to as workplace culture.
Meredith Matics: I think that's a great definition of it because it could really incorporate multiple aspects that we would all see in a workplace. One of the things I think that's been more interesting, not really new, but the concept that we're all realizing we do spend eight hours a day with these people and at this place, and we should have a somewhat bonded ish relationship with them, but in a professional manner.
How do we accomplish that? How do we encourage that? How do we grow that? All that is very different than what it used to be. I think it's definitely something that's been brought up a lot more recently.
Dr. Kelly Waltman: Right. Yes, I would agree. It is something that companies and leaders are starting to pay a lot more attention to and understanding there is this growing body of research that is really taking a look at that. I think that that is helping shape that dialogue and that awareness that it does matter and it is something that we need to really take into consideration.
Meredith Matics: What do you think is the reason for the change and to be more aware of the workplace culture?
Dr. Kelly Waltman: That's a great question. I think because we aren't in this traditional industrial factory setting anymore. So much of what we do is relational. So much of what we do requires creativity. There is a lot more communication happening. Certainly there are still some of those traditional nine to five punch the time clock, manufacturing type jobs, but that's not the majority of the workforce anymore. That's not the majority of the jobs that are out there.
I think because we have all of this relational component that was always there on some level, right? It was always there. It's more magnified now. So we are seeing that we're having more of this dialogue where we're realizing that all of these other pressures and all of these other things do take a toll on our wellbeing, mental health, and physical health. Seeing all of that bubble up to the surface more in the last 30 years. And again, what we're learning just more generally about our overall health and wellbeing as people in the workforce. I think that that is really helping shape that awareness and shape that research agenda that we're seeing more and more of that coming into play.
Meredith Matics: Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about feedback of the work culture. What is expected in the sense of feedback? When we think about feedback, are we thinking like surveys or are we thinking like the communication between partners or people within the workplace?
Dr. Kelly Waltman: Yeah. I could talk about feedback all day. That's one of my favorite topics and I always say I'm on a mission to take the fear out of feedback, because I think people get like oh, I'm afraid to go into that office. I think when people hear the word feedback, they automatically kind of tense up a little bit and get a little uncomfortable. We can talk certainly about why that is that we have that reaction. Just in thinking about feedback again, when I'm referencing feedback, I'm talking about that regularly giving and receiving feedback. Helping people understand the ways that they can grow and improve, but also letting people know what they're doing really well.
I often see with leaders, they tend to fall on one side or the other. Either they're really good at telling people what they do well and what they've done right. They're great cheerleaders. They're really good at giving that positive feedback and reinforcement, but they're super uncomfortable with giving the critical feedback and addressing problem behaviors or areas for growth.
Or they're really good at that. They're really good at pointing out, okay, you need to do this better. Or at least they do that more frequently. But they're not as good at taking the time to point out the things that are going right and the things that should continue. It really is about having that balance of regularly letting people know what they're doing well, what they should continue doing and what they need to improve, what could be done better next time. It really is about growth. That's what it's all about.
Meredith Matics: I honestly don't remember, I don't remember having reviews or feedback very often. I've only had it at one job. And so to me as a leader, it was kind of a foreign concept. I feel like now it's a lot more expected within the workplace because I've even talked with like a friend of mine who works for Adobe and weeks before her yearly review, she was like ready. Like I have my goals ready. We're going to talk about how I've achieved these over the last year. And I was like, what? Because I think it used to not be as expected in company culture to do these regularly. I feel like they are both scary and empowering.
Dr. Kelly Waltman: Yeah. There's a couple different threads in there that we could unpack. On one hand, I think it's great that it sounds like she was having a really comprehensive review experience and that's awesome. But I caution leaders and teams who rely solely on the annual performance appraisal process. Even if it's a really good one, you really want to be giving feedback in real time. It's something that should be ongoing, in the moment, real time and not saved up for those annual performance reviews. And I'm not insinuating that that's what her leadership is doing. I know some places do that, really just on that annual review or maybe even a six month and an annual review. And it really should be something that's just part of that ongoing dialogue and kind of the rhythm of communication is that feedback. It is something that people are expecting more and more. Some of the recent research shows that 72% of people believe that their performance would improve with feedback. 82% of people want feedback, whether it's positive or they said negative, but I tend to use the word critical. 98% of people will fail to be engaged when they don't receive that regular and ongoing feedback. That's nearly everybody. So essentially everyone is saying, if I'm not getting that, I'm going to fail to be fully engaged and I'm going to fail to do my best work because I'm not getting that opportunity for feedback and growth.
Meredith Matics: Well, I'm so surprised with 98% of people wanting feedback, then why do we have such a fear of feedback?
Dr. Kelly Waltman: Yeah, that's a fantastic question. And I wrote about this the feedback disconnect cause you're right. If everybody is wanting this feedback, why do we have the disconnect where they're not receiving it. Most recent Gallup study of the American workforce report, they reported that less than a quarter of people report that they are receiving regular feedback and feedback that is meaningful and helps them do better work. So we've got less than 25% of people are actually receiving meaningful feedback, even though everybody wants it.
I think there's a few reasons for that disconnect and part of it is as you were saying we do fear feedback. We have this tendency to take it personally. Even if the person does provide feedback in a productive way and effective way, there is that initial reaction of we take it personally, we focus on the negative. And part of that relates back to honestly, our survival instinct. Our ancestors, there was a significant period of time where our survival literally depended upon our standing in our tribe. So when we are hearing critical feedback, that survival instinct in our brain that hard wiring sends off the alert signals like, uh oh, I've let somebody down. I've done something wrong. My standing and the tribe is threatened. We have that initial like visceral response. That kicks in.
Meredith Matics: Yeah. I'm even trying to just think about within my own team. As leaders, how do we get feedback on our level of feedback? Like how do we know if it's productive?
Dr. Kelly Waltman: Yeah. Honestly the first, and this is some of the advice I give to people when they're really thinking about beginning to cultivate that feedback culture is, is to start with you. It's awesome that you just asked that question. It's spot on. A great place to start is taking stock of how we're doing as leaders and asking for that feedback. I tell leaders if this is kind of new territory, I offer up some, I call them like gateway questions to feedback. They're really targeted open-ended questions.
You're not just asking somebody, how am I doing? Because if you just say to someone, how am I doing with feedback? You might get a response from them, but chances are, if that's not been some type of conversation you've already had, they might be uncomfortable. So, if you ask questions, like what are you getting from me that you find helpful? What are or aren't you getting from me that impedes your ability to be effective or successful? What could I do that would help you be more successful or help our team be more successful? And then maybe you can ask some of those questions, are you getting feedback from me regularly enough? Is there a type of feedback I could give you that would be helpful?
Asking those targeted questions, but open-ended, and in a way that shows them you sincerely care and you want to know, but you're asking it in a way that they're not going to get in trouble or feel threatened by it by answering it honestly.
Meredith Matics: In my particular case, we have an ongoing of interns. They're there to learn. Specifically for feedback, I thought initially and probably thought wrong, but that the best way was to be more like the bowling alleys that have little bumpers up where it was like, okay, like, if they're really bad on the phone, instead of just being like, Hey, you can't call that insurance company and call them idiots. Be like, oh, well, I found it's a lot more helpful when it's positive and you get more, but I've found that that's not always the most effective way.
It's hard because everybody learns different.
Dr. Kelly Waltman: Yeah.
Meredith Matics: What seems to be helpful is like the straight up category review like, how do you feel you're doing on the phone? One through four, which sounds stupid. But they like that because then they'll be like, oh, I didn't realize I was doing so well. Or like, usually there pretty close, like when we do their mid and final term reviews, they're usually pretty aligned with like what my opinions are, but it's nice for them to hear the good stuff too.
Dr. Kelly Waltman: Yeah.
Meredith Matics: But incorporating it daily and having those, you get kind of different responses like when I've sat and been like in my experience being positive with the reps on the phone has led to a more successful conversation and I've been able to get more information regarding the claims. Sometimes that works and sometimes they're just like, okay, And then it doesn't.
Dr. Kelly Waltman: Right.
Meredith Matics: How do we know when we're being effective in those senses? Is there a way to gauge if someone's listening or understanding our feedback?
Dr. Kelly Waltman: Initially you could ask them. Summarizing a conversation is helpful both if you're wanting to make sure that you've maybe understood feedback that they're giving to you. If you want to say to them - I appreciate you coming to me this feedback. I just want to summarize this in my own words to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. Does this sound about right? Tell them what you heard and see if they affirm that or not.
If you're giving them feedback and you want to see if they've got it. There's a couple of different ways you can wrap up that conversation and ask them to share back with you, like, I've given you a couple of strategies here to be more successful in these phone calls. What were your key takeaways from this conversation? What do you plan to go forth from here and implement? One, that's going to reinforce the information. That's just a standard learning tool is just to reinforce it, but it'll also give them the opportunity to put it in their own words, make sure they understand it correctly.
And you can either affirm that or give them some more guidance. And then beyond that it's watching for behavior change. Do you see them improving? I really encourage leaders to, if they can do weekly or at least biweekly check-ins and do even just those little micro doses of coaching. Five, six minutes of coaching. What you shared was a perfect example of that. Give a couple of strategies. Say, okay, this is what we're agreeing you're going to work on for this next week or two weeks, and then we'll circle back. If you can monitor their behavior and see how they're doing or get feedback from somebody else. And also, do a check in with them and see how they feel they're doing. Do they feel that they've noticed an improvement and responses from the insurance companies or just how the conversation is going? Those are some ways to check and see if it's being effective.
Meredith Matics: We've talked a lot about leadership feedback. Is there something that should be going on between let's say peers or, is there a way that we should be feeding back with our equals?
Dr. Kelly Waltman: Yeah, absolutely. When I'm conceptualizing and talking about a feedback culture, that's really what a key part of that. It's not just leadership giving and receiving feedback, but it really is about team members and coworkers being able to give and receive feedback to one another. I'll admit that is often the harder task to get to.
If you have a great team that has worked together for a while and is gelling really well. Sometimes that happens naturally, but often that is the dynamic that takes the most work. Help people get comfortable with that peer level feedback. But absolutely, I'm a big advocate in teams getting to that place where we can say to one another - you could ask me, you can say, Hey Kelly I'm getting ready to go in to do this presentation of this meeting. And here are a couple areas that I'm trying to work on and try to get better at you. Watch how I do. Let me know. Can we circle back and you can tell me did I say it too many times. That's one of my big things I need to get better at. Was I too quiet? Too loud? You know, help me out. How did I do? You could even ask for people to do that. Getting to that space where yes, you can give each other that guidance and that growth advice. It really is about lifting each other up and lifting the team up. It's not about criticizing or bringing each other down.
Meredith Matics: I would imagine that that definitely is the hardest part. Cause I can't even picture most coworkers being at a level where they're comfortable enough. The day-to-day like in an admin setting or more traditional office setting, I feel like there isn't as much natural opportunity. I feel like it has to be almost like cultured more, which is the whole point. It has to be fed. It has to be nurtured. So how can we encourage our employees to be better at feedback with each other?
Dr. Kelly Waltman: Yeah. It's a great point. One of the informal ways, I did this with a team that I supervised a few years ago, and I know a lot of people were working predominantly remotely now or fully remotely. I think there's ways you could probably cultivate this online, but I haven't seen it yet. There's probably a way to do this, but we, in the lunchroom had a bulletin board. This was such a simple thing. It was so cheap and inexpensive, but it really was great for facilitating the positive feedback that we're talking about. We had an envelope there, a pen and like high five cutouts and stars. People would just anonymously. You could put your name if you wanted to, but generally they were anonymous and they just said, Mike did a great job working with the stakeholder or Becky really helps me out on this project. We called it our kudos board. All those little things that often go unmentioned and necessarily unnoticed, but unmentioned and unrecognized. It was a way to not only help that person feel better that like, oh, I didn't even know. They, they noticed that. But it also was just great for the office in general to see that positivity literally right in our faces, right there, was a great way to help cultivate that positive feedback.
I did notice that not only were people doing that, like they really got into it, but they would then more frequently acknowledge to their peers through email, at staff meetings, just in passing. It became something that we were more intentional about and so it happened more frequently. That was awesome to see.
The critical feedback or constructive feedback, that is I think even harder. Not harder. It takes more work, I guess I should say. It takes a lot more intention. It absolutely can happen.
But one of the things I want to point out, because it is so important, this is true for any level of feedback. It's essential that you have a safe space. That is whether you're having one-on-one feedback conversations, or if we're talking about the team dynamic. I really work with leaders and teams on that first step. That is an imperative. To have a safe space for open and honest dialogue.
And if you've done that work and you have that safe space and you've really worked to cultivate that positive feedback culture as kind of your initial step. There are ways through team activities maybe pairing people up and again, taking it from the perspective that the scenario we gave earlier. Identify an area to have something that you'd like to work on and improve. And so, you can pair people up and help them coach each other together in a non-threatening way. There's ways to help start to have that dialogue take place, but it really does take a lot of intentional effort. Absolutely. I'm not gonna candy coat it.
Meredith Matics: Well, this is all really great stuff for us as leaders to absorb and to put in to practice every day.
Dr. Kelly Waltman: We've talked about the dynamic among team members. We've talked about how people want feedback and that they'll become disengaged if they don't have it. One of the things that I'll just say is that communication is the driver of energy placement. If communication is good and it's positive, people are freed up to spend their time on the things you want them to spend their time on. So creativity, problem solving, getting their job done, all those things.
If the communication is not healthy and it's not effective or it's just not even happening. Where does people's energy go? It goes to complaining or worrying. Why am I not being kept in the loop? Or why is so-and-so doing this? Or just complaining about morale and not only does that suck up their own time and energy, then they're going to suck in their team member or other coworkers, and they're going to be complaining. It really is so important to have that healthy communication.
It also has a direct connection to a company's bottom line. And I don't care if you're a nonprofit or for-profit, you have a bottom line to worry about. We know that there's a ton of research out there. They can actually quantify how much money is lost in productivity due to, turnover's the obvious one, but also miscommunication and misunderstanding. We want employees to be happy and satisfied and all of those things, but also for a business to survive and thrive. It really is so important to have that communication.
Meredith Matics: Yeah. I'm a very visual person and I don't know if you've ever seen the video of people making mochi, but it's like one person pats it, and one person hits it. They have like a rhythm, but if they didn't communicate that rhythm to each other, like one would whack one in the hand and one would like go flying.
Dr. Kelly Waltman: Right.
Meredith Matics: Even when you just think of it with one task, if each person has their part and they can't communicate what's being done and at what speed. You're going to have one person whacking somebody in the head.
Dr. Kelly Waltman: Yeah, absolutely. That's a great example.
Meredith Matics: Well, Kelly, as we close up, what is one piece of advice that you've personally received that you want to share with our listeners?
Dr. Kelly Waltman: I think the biggest thing is not to be afraid to ask for help. I think that so often we feel like we have to figure it all out and have all the answers. And, we don't know what we don't know. Asking for help, seeking out a mentor, a coach, just somebody that has already been there and walked through the difficult stuff and can share those lessons. It's just so valuable. It saves you a lot of time and energy and heartache, and of course you're still gonna have the obstacles. There's still gonna be things you have to, you're gonna have to learn the hard way, but having a mentor, having somebody in that role that can help guide and walk you through it. I think is just invaluable.
Meredith Matics: Definitely. Where can our listeners learn more about you and SLR Leadership?
Dr. Kelly Waltman: Yeah. On all things social, I'm at Dr. Kelly Waltman - so at Dr. Kelly Waltman. Then on my website, the company website, www.slrleadership.com. There's a ton of great resources on there. There's some guides. I have a blog. There's some great resources of the things that we talked about in terms of questions to ask and how to effectively receive feedback. That's a great place to find those resources.
Meredith Matics: Thank you so much, Kelly, for coming on. I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us.
Dr. Kelly Waltman: Thank you Meredith for having me. This was real pleasure. Thank you so much.
Business Reflections Podcast: Please note that these are thoughts and opinions alone. For tax advice, please see your CPA or tax advisor, tax professional for business advice and legal entities. Please see your local business, lawyer, or attorney for advice. And if you'd like to reach out to us for any topics or questions about. Any subject, any episode you can reach us podcast@maticsbilling.com. That's podcast@maticsbilling.com.
For show notes, visit Maticsbilling.com/podcast. If you liked this episode, we want to hear from you. Please hit subscribe. Leave a review and share this episode with your friends, family, and on your social media pages. See you next time!