Business Reflections Podcast Episode #25 - Building a Team with Silver Linings for Seniors

Episode Transcript

Meredith Matics: Welcome to Business Reflections with your host Meredith Matics, and we are here to reflect on the business topics that are affecting you today and how you can better run your business. I have Ann Marie Sochia, the CEO of Silver Linings for Seniors. First off, before we even get started with it, you got some really exciting news today regarding something that your company had been hoping for. I understand.  

Ann Marie Sochia: Absolutely. Thank you for bringing it up. We were awarded a $10,000 grant from the Hello Alice Foundation. Hello Alice is amazing. I highly recommend checking them out at helloalice.com. I'm really grateful and honored that we were selected and the money's going to go to a great cause helping seniors, marketing, growth, and hiring and all the things that we need to do to keep a business growing and successful.  

Meredith Matics: That is so exciting. We also love Hello Alice and just to know that you guys were able to get that grant money that you needed is so exciting. 

 Let's dive in.  Let's start with your background. So tell me a little bit how you got to the place you are now with your job. 

Ann Marie Sochia: Absolutely. I went to college and I have several degrees, including a master's in mental health counseling. I like helping people. I love helping people. I started off doing hypnosis and mental health counseling. And started working with seniors and senior retirement communities and realizing there was a need, an unmet need for population that was underserved and that would be seniors and caregivers. 

I just felt such a passion for helping them that it just drove me to go from owning a small practice to opening a group practice. Actually as of last week, our website went live for a third practice helping doing teletherapy. It's all about making the world a better place. One person, one smile at a time. 

Meredith Matics: That's beautiful. Did you have a private practice before, before going into group practice or did you dive right into it?  

Ann Marie Sochia: It was challenging because there's a lot of work that goes into a private practice, but there's even more work that goes into a group practice. The private practice, there's still rules and regulations and laws. 

Of course. When you open a group practice with social workers, there's another board to follow. There's a lot more people that you have to employ. Now you worry about payroll and advertising, budgets, and things that as a one-woman show, small practice, you don't have to think about.  

Meredith Matics: Yeah, I'm super familiar with this. I don't know if you read my background, but...  

Ann Marie Sochia: I did.  

Meredith Matics: ...being a medical biller. I get it.  

Ann Marie Sochia: You definitely do. Then there's that whole big piece in my private practice, which is still running is a self-pay practice so people pay cash, check or charge. The Silver Linings for Seniors is a Medicare based program. We're dealing with insurances, rules, regulations, Medicare, CMS and the government. That is no joke and sometimes very challenging, but very worthwhile when you get to help somebody. 

Meredith Matics: Yes. And for any listeners that don't know, one of the barriers to care, in my opinion, is that the limit for seniors to be able to see provider has to be a social worker or a psychologist. They can't be like an MFT or a licensed clinical counselor. 

At least not as of yet. To me, that's a barrier to care because it puts a lot more pressure on you guys to have to see a larger number of cases. 

Ann Marie Sochia: It does. And I will tell you, it puts an added pressure because I'm actually a licensed clinical mental health counselor. 

I am personally not Medicare eligible. Although every single therapist I hire is when we followed their rule board because it's their laws and regulations for social work. But it is frustrating. I often get applicants who want to work for me, who have spent years working with seniors in one capacity or the other and we work with Medicare and you're not legally eligible. And to be a psychologist, you have to be a PhD level or a licensed clinical social worker or a doctor.  

Meredith Matics: Yeah. I think that puts a barrier to care on most critical population, but to kind of go into what we're talking about today was a little bit more on building a team, which I think a lot of small businesses struggle with. What made you take that leap from going from a single person practice to a team-based group practice? 

Ann Marie Sochia: Well, seniors need counseling. They're an underserved population and it was enough of a business that one therapist couldn't do it, or two therapists. As we saw more clients and we have over 300 clients a week, we see now and growing we're now calling the entire state versus just our small RTP area and a few other surrounding areas. 

The need was there. If you only have a couple of counselors, you have to say no to a lot of people. I want to help every single person I can. 

Meredith Matics: Yeah. What was the biggest challenge to growing a team?  

Ann Marie Sochia: The biggest challenge to growing a team is knowing what to look for, knowing what not to look for. And really paying attention because someone can interview very, very well. 

We've all been there. And then when they go to do the job, they have no skills. They sell themselves really well, but then they don't have the muster behind it. So it's really paying attention and asking the right questions, having a list of them and really just diving in and getting to know the person, asking the things that they might not be comfortable answering, but you need to know so that you can make the right decision and hire the right people. And it's okay to say no, it's okay to say you're not the right hire or you're not a good fit right now. Because bringing in the wrong fit is worse than bringing in nobody.  

Meredith Matics: Yes. I recently experienced that where I brought in a wrong fit and just the clean up of even just a month of having the wrong fit in a small business can be so detrimental.  

Ann Marie Sochia: It is detrimental. There's so many things to worry about when you bring in the wrong fit and all the back work you have to do to clean up whatever mess they made or figure out what they did or didn't do. It's easier to just make the right hire the first time.  

Meredith Matics: You said having the questions is something that you like to look for and prepare to have a good hire. What else do you do to prepare to have a good hire for your team?  

Ann Marie Sochia: I check every reference possible. I strongly urge anybody who's making a hire. I don't care if you're Kodak, Xerox, IBM or a little small mom and pop, check their social media. What do they do for fun? If you Google their name, what's going to pop up? If you search on them, what's going to be said? And then again, check the references. I always like to say when a reference says I can't give you much feedback. 

I say, answer one simple question. Nine out of 10 times they'll answer this question. And I'll say if you had a position they were qualified for, would you rehire them? And if the answer is yes, that gives me a good sign. If there's hesitation with a no or I won't answer that, then that gives me a clue right there. 

If I have any doubts, that's sealed their fate.  

Meredith Matics: Yeah. I know a lot of employers struggle with what to ask the references. How did you go about coming up with that conversation with references?  

I just think it's daunting for some small business owners to be like, Ooh, I got to call this stranger and ask like, would you hire this person again or whatever, but it is an important role. So can you talk to us a little bit about how you prepare for that and how you dive into that?  

Ann Marie Sochia: Absolutely. I make sure I usually do reference checking from my house and it's professional and I call it, I start off with, Hey, my name is I'm calling on behalf of so-and-so to do a reference check. Were you expecting my call? And if they say, no, I'm I write that down or do you know who this is? If they say no, I make a note. And then I just, I take a deep breath and I have a conversation. I laugh and I joke with them. I let him know that I'm really interested in this candidate, but I really need your feedback to make sure this is a good fit because not only do they need to be a good fit for me, but I need to be a good fit for them.  I know that you don't want them to make the wrong move and nor do I want to make the wrong move. I just start asking questions and by the time I'm done, I'll say to the person, if they're local and if you know anybody else looking, we're also hiring for X, or if you're looking for a part-time job or hiring for keep us in mind, because you never know who you're going to meet. And I've hired people from reference checks because they were amazing and they were looking for what we did, or they brought us an intern that wanted to work for us. 

Meredith Matics: I think that's a really good attitude and approach to have.  

Ann Marie Sochia: You just talk to people like they're your friend, or like they can help you, and nine out of 10 times they're very happy to help because if you think about who you'd put down for a reference, you're not going to put down somebody who doesn't have your best interests at heart. That's just not what you do. So you're picking someone who you know is going to say something nice typically, and they want what's best for you. They're going to be happy to take that call.  

Meredith Matics: Yeah, that's true. What are some ways that you think small business owners should be investing in their employees?  

Ann Marie Sochia: Great question. I can tell you that we've been awarded and received a couple of other grants.  I've used those to pay for trainings and fundings. 

One of the best things.  I think you can just believe in your staff. Ask them, what do they need, what do they want? What's going to make their job better? What's gonna make them happier? Happy people stay longer. People that are doing a good job and getting rewarded for that good job stay longer. I've given through profit money and through what we've received through grants, I've sent almost all of my current staff has had a training or two. 

And I asked them, would this be something you want? And they all said, yes. And I made it happen. Like I do with anybody, whether it's a client or a consumer or faculty or staff or whoever I'm working with, I will say, is this what you want? Will this help you? And sometimes they say no, and I'll say, well, I think you need it anyway. 

And I listened to them. I listened to them. They have a voice because if I send them to a training class, they don't want to take, they're not going to be happy about it. But if we could dialogue and I can say, this is why you need to take it. And this is what I think it would do. Do you agree? By the time we're done, we've either both agreed that yes, they need it or they've changed my mind. And I go, no, I think you're right. Let's do this one instead, but it's giving them the opportunity to define their job and where they want to go with it, because then they're happier and they've got a career path and a mindset for success. 

Meredith Matics: I just want to go over what you just said, because that is huge and huge, huge, huge, is that you're allowing them to within their employment with you define their own career. And that I think is so empowering.  

Ann Marie Sochia: Absolutely. In this job that I have now, as a CEO, I get to define the things I want to do and hire people that can do the things either I'm not so good at, or I don't want to do, I don't have time for. That makes me a better boss and a happier person. And likewise, my credentialing specialist is a biller. But she started doing some credentialing and really liked it. So now she's taking classes on credentialing. 

We are working on setting up a division in credentialing, because she's good at it and she likes it. That's her passion. That's what we want her to florish.  

Meredith Matics: How do you handle employees that maybe you've invested in, but don't invest back in your company? 

Ann Marie Sochia: One of my mentors early on said you work with the people that want to work with you and those that don't you invite to quit. I give them the opportunity to invest. I have sit down and one-on-ones with them, and I find out where their passion is and if there's a way to align us. And if there's not, I give them every opportunity to decide this isn't the right fit for them. 

Because it can't be the right fit for everybody. And if they're not doing what they want to do, life is too short. Find your passion and follow it. And maybe it's staying with me for another two weeks while you figure out your path, figure out your path to the passion. But my mom said when I was young and this was always her philosophy, if you love what you do and you can make a living doing it, why aren't you?  

Meredith Matics: Yeah, that's definitely true.  

Ann Marie Sochia: That's my theory. You don't have to work for me. Do what fills your soul.  

Meredith Matics: Yeah, I'm just thinking back to my employees and I had one employee one time approached me and she was probably one of my best employees, so it really pained me, but she just said at the end of the day medical billing wasn't fueling her soul. And there's not many of us that it does, but I completely understood and I told her, I understand, and how do we proceed that's gonna be in both of our best interests? We've talked about a step-down plan while she could look for another job and re wrote her reference.  

And I have to say, I appreciated the honesty because if she'd just been resentful and working behind the computer and it, would've just, it hurt everybody. 

Ann Marie Sochia: Well, the other piece of what you're saying, and you alluded to it is that you really want someone managing your money that isn't happy. 

Why give someone control over something that crucial that it isn't invested in doing a good job and doesn't, and  I'm generalizing I don't know her, but if you don't want to be where you're at, you're not giving it your all. When you're doing medical billing, it's especially important to know every code and every nuance, because little thing could cost you a ton of money. 

And the other thing, going back to something you said earlier, the other thing I do for my team is I invest in a hire within, if I can, and higher up whenever possible. I've had people with me less than a year that have been supervisors and now managers, because they've earned it. Their passion is shown through. They've made a difference. They're in it to win it, that they're doing what they want to do and they want to be in it for the long haul. So, I invest in trainings and helping them move up and I've had other people that haven't been with me, long, and they decide I'd rather be over here. 

Well then please go there because I'll work with you as you set a step down package, but just do what you're going to do best.  

Meredith Matics: Yes. I'm wondering, as companies grow, especially as like a small business that starts out with maybe two or three people, but then eventually you grow to 10, 15, 20, 50. 

How do you start creating that, the hierarchy or the division between, who's in charge of who? How did you put that into place?  

Ann Marie Sochia: That was actually kind of challenging at first, because I had to figure out who my leaders were and who could be in charge of certain things and do better. It goes back to one interviewing very well and making sure that you're hiring the right people. 

And if you're hiring the right people and in their resume, they show potential for growth. Being a small company, I always started off in my interview with, with the exception of maybe my therapist, cause it's little bit different, but for the actual employees, my therapists are contractors. For the seven or eight employees that we have, I tell them up front. We are a small mom and pop. 

If you're looking to be wined and dined and get all of the benefits that you'd get working for Google, please go work for them. That's not us. We're not there. We will be someday. I give them a short preview of where I see the company going. If that's something they're interested in, I start planning, what do they want? 

Whereas where is your future? Where's their skill set? Then I do things with them along the way to see are they good at management? Are they good at that? For example, my biller is amazing. She's now manager of the billing department because every time I needed something she had it before I even asked for it. She knew the laws, the regulations, she knew Medicare. She was a leader. When I hired her, I said, I think you'd make a great supervisor. I'd like to work towards that, but let's see how you do. 

She was a supervisor. Did amazing, continue to do amazing. I promoted her at her next review to manager because she earned it. She did the right things. I have kind of a hierarchy game plan in my head as I hire people because I know what I need. 

Meredith Matics: Yeah. I think that's a great strategy. I remember back to my times being an employee at small businesses, and I didn't really feel like they all ever had a, a plan for me. That's one thing I've also tried to incorporate into my businesses, trying to think like for their future without deciding it for them. 

But what are the things that they could be really good at and what opportunities can I present as the employer to see if they want?  

Ann Marie Sochia: Absolutely. If they're not invested in the future, you don't want them. My goal was always to have people that wanted that vision wanted the responsibility and wanted to grow. I need people that have that vision and someone who doesn't want to grow, doesn't want to fill that void is not the right fit. 

And I've turned down some really qualified people. Because they weren't the right fit for what I needed. 

Meredith Matics: Ann Marie, as we close up, I'm wondering if you have a piece of advice that you've received from another business owner that you want to share with our podcast listeners?  

Ann Marie Sochia: Absolutely. I often when I meet with business owners, they'll ask, well, how did you do it? Or what did you do or they'll ask me the advice that is often given around is just listen, listen to what people want and need. 

Do your best to fill the needs. Whether it's a client that needs more counseling or a company that needs a therapist or a therapist who needs a week off or someone who's not telling you they're struggling, but you can see that they're struggling in their job. Just listen, pay attention. Be there. 

Meredith Matics: That's good. Where can our listeners find you on social media? 

Ann Marie Sochia: Absolutely. If you go to our websites, we actually have two companies. We have Silver Linings for Seniors and we also have SLteletherapy.com. If you go to either of those, all of our links to social media are on there. 

You can check out our website, you can give us a call. We are available. We want to help you. If you're in the state of North Carolina, which is the only state currently that we provide counseling and if you're a social worker or a psychologist looking for work. We are hiring in the state of North Carolina. Look us up, reach out and check out helloalice.com if you're a small business. There are a lot of grants and a lot of support and wonderful people that want to help you be successful.  

Meredith Matics: We do want you to be successful and what you're doing is so important. This is the first time I've really gotten to interview on this podcast somebody who is in a similar, but not directly similar, region of business is to I am.  

Ann Marie Sochia: Absolutely.  

Meredith Matics: It's exciting to be able to bond over that, but it is. 

Ann Marie Sochia: And I love what you do. I wouldn't want your job, but I love what you do. I will stay a business owner and a therapist, but I admire anybody who can do billing, accounting. 

Well, thank you for having me. This has been delightful and I hope to get to do it again. 

Business Reflections Closing: Please note that these are thoughts and opinions alone. For tax advice, please see your CPA or tax advisor, tax professional for business advice and legal entities. Please see your local business, lawyer, or attorney for advice. And if you'd like to reach out to us for any topics or questions about. Any subject, any episode you can reach us podcast@maticsbilling.com. That's podcast@maticsbilling.com.    

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