Episode #15 - Empathetic Sales with Annie P. Ruggles
Episode Transcript
Meredith Matics: Welcome to Business Reflections with your host Meredith Matics, and we are here to reflect on the business topics that are affecting you today and how you can better run your business. I have Annie P. Ruggles, the founder of The Non-Sleazy Sales Academy. So Annie, tell me how you got started in sales.
Annie P. Ruggles: Hi, Meredith. Uh, I never, ever expected to be in sales. If you had a time machine and went back in time, I would be mortified. If you told me I wound up in sales. If you told most of the people who have known me throughout my life, they would also be a little surprised, but I've always loved marketing and the psychology of marketing, and I've always been super passionate about small businesses.
And so that made sense to me! Go into marketing, go into small business, but I wound up, you know, in this giant puddle of sales that I never really expected when I realized that a lot of small businesses jump into existence without any marketing or sales strategy. And they enjoy marketing more, so they think that marketing will help them cross the finish line.
And it really doesn't. So I decided I was going to find out why my clients weren't as successful as they should be and the answer was they weren't selling. They were either choosing not to or just not selling.
Meredith Matics: Okay. So just you being like not making those final sales or that they weren't selling themselves as business owners?
Annie P. Ruggles: Basically, if there's a way that they could find to avoid the sale, it's like this weird self sabotage that I started to uncover where some people would never actually ask.
They would just leave the conversation open and waited for the client to come around and go, oh, okay sure, well, where do I send money? And other people would ask kind of, sort of. Some people would ask, get a, let me think about it or any kind of objection and just run for the hills. Like, Nope, Nope, Nope.
And other people just sort of market and market and marketing, marketing, marketing, marketing, marketing, marketing, market, but never actually ask.
Meredith Matics: Are those the things behind what inspired you to start in your own company or what, what led you to become an entrepreneur and start your own company?
Annie P. Ruggles: Uh, ha well, I'm second generation. My mom was a motivational speaker and my dad was a business strategist. And so I started helping my mom with her marketing when I was like nine, you know, free labor. How did the kid do it? Like, especially because I was one of the first generations that was actually taught how the internet works. So, you know, you have this nine-year-old who understands what AOL is and you're like, Hey kid, go learn this thing.
But I always was drawn to the idea that I could build something. Around myself to help others. And I didn't know what form that would take. And so right out of college, I was a life coach for awhile, and then I was in marketing and then I wound up being the director of marketing and sales for a software company.
And it's just kind of all wound up all over the place. And after the software company was acquired, I thought, what's the best way for me to go back to working with the kinds of people that I want to work with. And the answer was to go back out on my own full-time.
Meredith Matics: What do you think is the biggest, or at least one of the biggest misconceptions about sales?
Because I'm going to tell you right now, I told my husband that I was going to be interviewing somebody today about non-sleazy sales techniques. And he goes, there's no such thing as a non-sleazy salesman. And I was like, no, that there are a lot of misconceptions about sales. So tell me.
I know he's really good at that. But he's, he works in it. And those fans, people get real, like using all the buzz words.
Annie P. Ruggles: Abso-freaking-lutely I mean, there's a reason why I named it the Non-Sleazy Sales Academy. I wanted in the name to strike a cord of exactly what I stand against, but to get to your question about the misconceptions of sales.
I think that there is this understanding among people who really want to help others and who are other-centered, other-focused, heart-centered, you know, especially spiritually minded people in business as well. They think that sales is a door that once you walk through it, poof, you're a jerk. You become a horrible person.
The second, the money hits your account. You're corrupted. All you're going to want to do is be super greedy and nasty, and you'll never care about another customer again, beyond the money they bring to you. And that's completely and utterly untrue. So if you look at what you sell, for example, in medical billing and in, yeah and in the health space. People need medical billing. The doctors need it. The staff needs it and the patients need it. It's a need, need, need situation. So if you're going to go in and say, Hey, here's why my firm is better than any other firm that in itself is an act of selling. But what you're saying is, Hey, I'm a provider and I'm providing something that you need. As long as you stay focused on what they need and as long as you listen more than you talk, then you can also determine if you're a good fit for that client. And if you're not a good fit for that client, you can walk away. And if what your service is isn't right for them. You can walk away or you can tailor the service if you have that luxury.
But the difference between a sleazy seller and a non-sleazy seller is that the sleazy seller will sell you whatever they're supposed to sell you or whatever they think you should buy for their benefit. A non-sleazy seller is just putting a value and a price tag on the things that they put out into the world on those labors of love.
So that those products, those services can go out and fix the problem.
Meredith Matics: So you're talking about sales being less of a one-sided game and more of a mutual relationship to benefit both parties it sounds like.
Annie P. Ruggles: Oh, absolutely. And it's sometimes a very long game, but it definitely is a game, a dance it's a back and forth, right?
It's not let me run to the finish line. Hi, you're hooked. It's. Hey, should we try this? All right. What about the next door? It's a lot more like. A maze or a labyrinth where, you know, you go around a corner or an escape room, even you solve one puzzle, okay, onto the next puzzle. Okay. Onto the next. Okay. Onto the next.
And when you solve enough problems with them and for them, the customer will choose you if you ask them to.
Meredith Matics: One of the areas that you're really passionate about is sales avoidance in heart-centered business. Why do you think that small business owners avoid selling themselves when their heart is in their business?
Annie P. Ruggles: I think we take it very, very personally. I think most small business owners look at their business as an extension of themselves. I have more than one client that refer to their business as their baby or their business baby. Right? And who wants to put their heart out there and be rejected? Nobody.
Meredith Matics: Right.
Annie P. Ruggles: That, that fear of rejection, that, that one, that self preservation of not wanting to put yourself out there when something is so dear to you makes total sense completely. Right? That's why you can't really judge it. It makes sense. But beyond that, the avoidance comes in because we don't know what sales is and what sales isn't.
And so we look at our competitors or we look at the sales gurus out there and they're very aggressive and sharkish and manipulative and shouty and buzzwordy, to your husband's points before, and it's just very much a turn off. And we look at that and also, understandably, we go, okay, well, if that's what I'm supposed to do, I'm not doing that.
I'm not going to do that. That's not me. Or heaven forbid, we decided that we want to try it and we try it on. And we prove to ourselves, nope! That version of selling is not for me. And so what do we do? We market, we market, we market, we network, we sort of not work. We kind of ask, we put some stuff on social.
We talk about, so a couple of people and we just post it on social media again, and hope that somebody will just go to our website, honk out the buy button and click it. And that's just not how it happens. When it's, I think it's all about rejection and the fear of the shame, the embarrassment plus guilt. One of the main things I hear from people all the time is, well, I don't know how to put a praise on what I do or I'm working with a God-given gift. How can I charge for that?
Meredith Matics: I've never heard that question before. How do you answer that one?
Annie P. Ruggles: I tell people that I could pull their teeth out for free.
Meredith Matics: That's true.
Annie P. Ruggles: That is my legitimate answer. I tell people all the time. That there are many, many things that I can do that I do not charge for because I am not an expert in them, but I don't just charge for things to charge for them. I charge for the things where I am able to deliver value, where I'm available, able to provide ROI. Then they start to come around to the facts that, oh right. This is a business because at the end of the day, it's not a baby. It's a business. And if it were a baby, you would have to feed it.
Meredith Matics: I think at least for me and in my experience, I've seen a lot of business owners love what they do so much, which is good. Don't get me wrong. But to the extent that they jeopardize the health and longevity of their business by not valuing their services high enough. So for instance, I worked particularly in mental health. I see a lot of therapists. That'll just be like, well, I just really wanted to help these people and one, or is okay, but when 90% of your clientele is free, you know, that doesn't pay your rent.
Annie P. Ruggles: Right.
Meredith Matics: It doesn't pay the lights. Um, And at the end of the day, even if we have a mystical, magical, wonderful service or product, there's still things that have to go into it to maintain that business.
Annie P. Ruggles: Well and you yourself as provider are also a limited resource. You have limited time, you have limited energy, right? I could coach clients at three o'clock in the morning. Do I? No! Why? Because it wouldn't be any good.
Meredith Matics: Yeah.
Annie P. Ruggles: And try as I might, it would be terrible. It would be absolutely fricking awful. Same thing. I don't teach SEL. Why? Because it's bad. Because I would be absolutely horrible at that.
But I do charge and charge well, when I am applying my skillset to what's needed.
So, you know, you brought up this idea of pro-bono worker or discounting when you were talking about your clients, the therapist. And one thing that I have done that I so, so recommend to all of your listeners is have two banks in your mind that looked like those fundraising thermometers that you would see in like grade schools or churches. You know what I'm talking about, Meredith?
Meredith Matics: Oh, I totally know.
Annie P. Ruggles: Set a time maximum and set a money lost maximum, per month. So if you're a therapist, for example, It's important as a therapist who is a mental health provider to want to give back to the community and to want to not turn away people who are ill and in pain, especially in mental health.
Right? That makes total sense. Now there are resources available. That are out there that people in the industry would know of far more than I do, but there are resources. We just know that they exist. Okay. But if I'm a therapist and I'm saying, I went into my own practice to have my own rules, but I also have to pay my staff.
If you look at, I am able to donate because that's what it is, "x" amount of hours per month. If you look at that, you get more discerning about how you spend those hours, who you spend those hours with and on, and what has to wait because you don't want to exceed that budget. Same thing with money, right. If you know, my operating expenses are this, this and this, and I'm just squeaking by, well, how much money can I afford to lose by being unavailable during that time?
Yeah. Okay. Let's say a thousand dollars. $1,500, which adds up really quick when you're hourly like a therapist, right? How much of this time, how much of this money and then actually keep track. With enthusiasm using that thermometer, we using your red Sharpie or whatever. But when you do something great for someone, when you pay it forward, when you do discount, when you do comp, when you do work for free, put it on a thing, celebrate it, market, but don't exceed those budgets. You can always say, you know what? I exceeded my budget for this month. Why don't we look again next month? Can I contact you on the 15th?
Meredith Matics: Yeah. Well, and you brought up, I mean, we're going a little off topic, but yet there's other resources out there and providers can always refer out and stuff. But also we talk a lot too about burnout and you want to make sure that you're doing enough for yourself, but let's go back. Let's circle back to the sales. Tell us about and I have this in quotes because this is, something that's really unique to how you phrase it the "know, like, trust" pattern that businesses fall into.
Annie P. Ruggles: Okay. So know, like, trust is really big in marketing books, right?
Meredith Matics: We should probably say know as in K-N-O-W.
Annie P. Ruggles: We can't say the word no on the podcast about sales, because everyone that sales avoidant will run. No, just kidding. But know, like, sales is the marketing principle, that in order and it's true. And I, and I, before I debunk it, let me say it is 98% true, which is that in order for someone to buy from you, they first have to know that you exist. They have to like what you're offering. And they have to trust you. A hundred percent.
Meredith Matics: Yeah
Annie P. Ruggles: Completely true. If you are not visible, if you are not, you know, attractive magnetic in some way. And if you are not showing them that you are not going to highway Rob them, you're going to have some trouble with marketing.
But the thing is heart-centered people and the kind of people I work with and, and people like therapists who have so much love and so much talent to give often say, okay, well, I spend all of my non-practicing hours. Meaning like when I'm not with a client, I am spending that time hourly marketing. So know, yes.
I have brand awareness. Got it. I'm working on my social, I'm networking. I'm doing all these things like, well, I'm trying to be transparent. I'm trying to be authentic. I'm trying to be quirky and putting my pictures on Instagram and doing all these things. Trust that's in your policies, your pricing, how you present yourself. Right? But we spend all this time on that and then we go, oh, okay. According to all these marketing books, the people that are following me,yeah. They know me, they like me and they trust me, hooray. Why aren't they buying from me?
Um, and the reason I'm not buying from you is...
Meredith Matics: It's almost like it's missing a step.
Annie P. Ruggles: Yes, it's missing a step. Abso-freaking-lutely, Meredith. That step is called to ask for money. If we don't ask for money, they can stay knowing us and liking us and trusting us forever. They will sponge up your free content. They will come to your events, right? When COVID is over, they'll drink your free wine and hors d'oeuvres. And they'll tell people about too, when it's top of mind, if you cross their mind and they can stay in that place for forever.
But if you, as the provider do not say, okay, you know me, you like me, you trust me. If you need what I have, this is the next step toward buying it. Then that transaction never begins let alone ends.
Meredith Matics: It's missing that final step. What are some of the top sales mistakes that heart-centered businesses make on the regular?
Annie P. Ruggles: Well, other than avoiding it altogether, like we just talked about or.
Meredith Matics: I would even say unintentionally avoiding it.
Annie P. Ruggles: It is totally unintentional who wouldn't intentionally stab their business in the foot. Who would work 70, 80 hours, bend over backwards, have their hair fall out, alienate their lives, give up their 401ks, who would do that to intentionally sabotage it? Nobody. Right? Nobody. But at the same point, sometimes when we are pitching, you would be freaking amazed by the amount of apologizing that happens on sales calls. For example, if I tell you that my program is $45 a month, and that I offer a 12 payment plan, which is true. And a lot of people that are really confused by that.
But if I say that on the call, and then I say, you know, Meredith, I know that that might make me look kind of unprofessional, but a lot of my competitors aren't doing that. And I understand that because they're trying to make money, but like I'm trying to help you and still be covered that I'm trying to do this thing.
So it's $45 a month. You could pay in full if you wanted to, but it's $45 a month. And if that's too much, then maybe we could talk about it. And, and we just blab all through their decision-making time. How am I supposed to make a decision when you're yammering at me? Right, and the thing that we yammer is normally we try to cut them off at the pass of their objection.
So we object for them. Yeah. And there is value in speaking to the objection ahead of time, but the way to do that is not to say, well, that might be more money than you were thinking. And the reason for that is this. And, and, and, and, and just cover it all up instead of saying, Hey, how does that land on you?
And then listening? Right? The other mistake is the cover of the cover, the cousin of that mistake, which is to just dump a spiel on someone. This is what your husband's talking about. Buzzword, buzzword, buzzword, spiel, spiel, spiel. You asked me a question. I sort of answered it, but sort of answer the question next door so I can get back onto my script.
I take up the whole time I had with you blabbing, blabbing, blabbing, blabbing, blabbing. And then at the end I stopped maybe two minutes shy of the meeting ending and I go, Oh, okay, so are we going to do this thing?
Meredith Matics: Yeah.
Annie P. Ruggles: No, we're not, you don't know anything about me. Why would I want to work with you? Why you don't know if I need popsicles or gutters? You don't know.
Meredith Matics: Especially when you describe it like that. I do think that a lot of. Small businesses probably go into it, assuming that people will have a general idea of the value of their service like, Oh, okay you know, this is what I provide and would you like to get started? And I think we're scared to say the price. How much is the buy-in? How much is the investment? How much is whatever that monetary amount is that it's going to be your portion of the relationship? When talking about money and business, when we say money, there's a general negative connotation with that because people are protective of their. Money.
Annie P. Ruggles: And weary of the people who would take it from them.
Meredith Matics: Yeah. So it's almost like you try to allude to it without being so obvious, but really, I mean, I think that small business owners, we go out there with a product or service and, you know, we meet with somebody and we sit down and do the whole talk or whatever, and come out with just expecting them to have an idea.
So how do you help different businesses learn how to bridge that gap in communicating what their value?
Annie P. Ruggles: In my experience and definitely in my own life, what's held me up about price in the past is that I'm selling, but I'm selling to my own wallet. Meaning would I spend this amount on this thing right now? And the answer is almost always no, because I don't need it.
Meredith Matics: Right.
Annie P. Ruggles: If I needed it and I could afford it or I could budget for it, then I would buy it.
But when you go into, let's say you are a chiropractor and you have a partner who's also a chiropractor and you adjust her and she adjusts you and you adjust your clients together. And you're in this fabulous little bubble. If you go into sell chiropractic thinking, well, how much money would I spend on chiropractic?
Um, that would be zero. You personally chiropractor have no need for chiropractic. Right? So if we go in and we say, well, you know, that's kind of expensive or that's too cheap or whatever. First off, there is someone out there making money who charges more than you and there is someone out there making money who charges less than you.
So give yourself permission to have your price point be wherever your analysis has said that it lays and also give yourself permission to move it. But when you say that price point, don't assume that they're going to have a negative reaction to it. Right. $3,000 to you is not $3,000 to me. It's not $3,000 to my next door neighbor.
And $3,000 to me on a Monday is not the same thing, but it is to me the day before my staff needs their payroll. It's just not. And because we're never going to know that if we go in with our own emotional response and our own negative response to our price points, We're going to convey that and how we talk about it, or we're going to do that apologizing.
So the price is just a number and it's only one of the very many things that we're asking about. We're asking them for trust. We're asking them for energy. That's a lot scarier than asking for money. Money is just a number. Right. So laying that thing out there, fling that number out there, let it sit, see how it lands on them and in the back for the business of getting them to invest their energy, their time and their trust in you, because those are the harder sales to make and the better ones to celebrate.
Meredith Matics: Yeah. So when it comes to sales, what tips do you have for small businesses as they navigate the, and it's probably a little bit inevitable, the rejection process?
Annie P. Ruggles: Well, here's the thing, rejection's not fun and I've seen a lot of really awesome approaches to this. Like people that get intentionally rejected or people that buy themselves presents when they get rejected or any of these things.
And for me, I just have to sit with the uncomfortable truth. But rejection is really uncomfortable. Right. But, and I allow it to be. And it's rough and it's nasty, but also I never burn a bridge so severely in my sales process that the client says no out of anger. Oh, that's for the client says no out of hurt.
I take pains to do that. So although it personally hurts more because it feels like a rejection, at least in my anxiety, I don't have to go, I did something wrong. I did something wrong. They hated me. They had, they thought I wasn't professional or they disliked me or they thought I was a crook or a criminal.
Right. So I alleviate myself of that pressure by doing the very best I can. And I also leave the door open. Because they're not storming off in a huff, because they're not flying into the arms of my competitor, and even if they do, maybe it doesn't work out over there. I leave that door open. So I treat a no, which thankfully I don't hear very often, uh, no, as a, not now. And I am gracious about it and kind about it and enthusiastic about it. I give them homework. I wish them well. If they want to know names of my company, editors, I provide them. I ask them if it's okay for them to stay on my mailing list, I ask if it's okay for them. If I follow up with them in a little while to see how things are going, and then I stay in touch in a human way and they come back or they unsubscribed, they do, or they don't.
But at that point it doesn't hurt anymore. And I said, you can get referrals from people that say no to you. Maybe they can't afford you, but their best friend can, right. But if you burn the bridge and you at like a snot at the end of the sale, or you never follow up, never care, you're deleted from your mailing list, go and cry and whine and moan or take it super personally you're just hurting your own morale and the relationship that you could have had with someone who's still a prospect. Even though you got to know the first time.
Meredith Matics: Yeah, that reminds me of when I was like right out of high school, I was working for a balloon decor company and I was doing the calls and I remember that we didn't do like birthday balloons. Like, you know, you want to order like five balloons for your friend and like stuff it in their locker, like, you know, or go take it to their house and put it on a cake. It wasn't like that kind of balloons. It was like an arch or yeah, like giant things. Right. And every now and then we would get a call, you know, I would refer them to, um, like Party City or something.
It's just going to be stupidly expensive because that's not what we do. It doesn't make sense. And ,learning that at a younger age, but learning that was, you wouldn't believe how many of those people who really were not our ideal client and not the right relationship in the first place, but what, because I didn't just go, no, we don't do that, peace out. And gave them like, oh no, but I think it would be better if you did this. I even remember one time I had to like Google, like where their nearest Party City was. Cause they were like, I don't know where one is, but I can't tell you how many of those people either referred or called back was something later.
And it wasn't like the next day and it wasn't like the week after, but you know, Three months, four months down the line. Hey, I remember that you were super cool about this. It wasn't what I needed then, but you can do this now. And I think that we get really scared is when we approach that, and especially, you're talking about you business, being your baby, you know, you're going to protect it.
And so when somebody says, Oh, no, or they're not a right fit, you kind of want to be like, well, that's not what we do. You just leave it so negative, but being able to send them off with a little bit of joy and smile. And okay, well, not right now. I don't know how many business owners realize, how many people will come back to you in some way or another.
Annie P. Ruggles: In some way or another. And that's the thing with referrals, with testimonials, with connections, with staff, right. And it's, it's baffling that, that so many people, that's another thing that like, they respond. So badly at the end of it. Well fine. Thank you for wasting my time. Click. I doubt, I highly doubt that most of your listeners will do that, but if you smoke off like a sad puppy after building up all this professionalism, if you sit there and go well, okay.
I mean, I guess that's your perogative. I think you're making a huge mistake and you know, I'm the best and you're really going to regret this. Even that is saying you're in the wrong, not for choosing me, which is a question that we do want to say in the sales process, but once they've decided on a no, and it's a true, no, be gracious, be lovely.
You have nothing to lose. And if you can, if you are in a situation where, especially if they don't have the money, if there's a real financial objection, give them homework, give them a resource. Right? So maybe it is the number of a therapist that has sliding scale or, you know, something similar or maybe it's a book.
Maybe it's a series maybe it's who knows whatever they need. Maybe it's a roofer because they mentioned that it's, their house is leaking and that's causing them stress, whatever it may be. But when you go and make their lives easier without them having to pay you. They remember that same as if they had a positive buying transaction. We store it in the same place in our brain.
Right. A positive transaction is a positive transaction. So they're going to look back and go, you know, Meredith, has always done right by me. Why am I even looking at other medical billing? I should just go talk to Meredith when the time is, right.
Meredith Matics: Yeah. I think we forget in business that no should always be not right now instead of no, dead and buried.
Annie P. Ruggles: The reason why, you know, your husband would say that there are no non-sleazy sales people. Even though I, myself I've trained hundreds of them because there's also either really sleazy, annoying spammy follow-up or no follow up. Have you reconsidered, have you reconsidered? Have you reconsidered? Have you reconsidered? Have you read it? Like, Oh my God, stop.
That's not going to entice anybody. Like you gotta give them an, a for effort for following up over the people that just don't ever follow up. But, follow up like a human being. Yeah. You know, this person invested time and energy in you. They told you a problem to solve. Easiest thing to do is follow up. Hey, how's that problem going?
Meredith Matics: Yeah, but not every five seconds.
Annie P. Ruggles: Oh my God. No. The whole thing is give someone a moment to breathe. If you are asking, if you are asking them to make a decision. Allow them to make a decision. Be as tenacious as you want to be, be as you know, insistent, as you think is necessary. But if you look at that, sending a form email, or a predictable email weekly to ask the same question with little variation is not advancing the ball at all.
What is it doing? It's annoying you, it's not providing additional value. It's not building rapport. It's not building trust. It's not solving a problem for you. It's not introducing you to any new concepts. It's not entertaining you. So what is the point? There is none.
Meredith Matics: Yeah. So Annie, we're coming to a close here at, with our time. I have so many more questions. I still want to ask you, but, this was really good for today. Maybe we can have you back sometime.
Annie P. Ruggles: I'd love to come back.
Meredith Matics: I love ending our podcast with two big questions. And the first one is. What is one piece of advice that you personally have received that you want to share with other small business owners?
Annie P. Ruggles: Ooh, I love that. So my very first business advisor, that wasn't genetically related to me, was this amazing speaking trainer and coach named Lois Kramer. And one of the first questions that she taught me when I was just sitting out has been just monumental in my career. And that question is, who else should I be talking to? Because we cluster, we clump. We tend to know other people just like us. So when you get an amazing client, Hey, I want more amazing clients like you. Who else should I be talking to?
Who do you know when you get a no, you know what? I totally understand that now is not the right time for you to sign up to this, but I want more customers who understand the importance of getting these billing practices. Right? Who else should I be talking to? Right. You get a referral. Amazing. Thank you so much for that referral referrals are the lifeblood of our business.
Who else should they be talking to? Get in the habit of putting that in and your network will never run dry.
Meredith Matics: I like that. And Annie, if our listeners want to learn more about. The non sleazy sales Academy or you, where can they find you on social media?
Annie P. Ruggles: I have a free challenge that is called "Making Selling Easy Without Getting Sleazy" and right, right?
Tell that's your, tell your husband to take it. You should have never, I have a vendetta against your husband now. I'm going to make sure that he knows as soon as he takes www.anniepruggles.com/easynotsleazy which is the link for "Making Selling Easy Without Getting Sleazy". That's a really great introduction to, uh, looking at sales as a way to solve problems.
And also I really love Instagram. So if you also really love Instagram, you can find me connect with me, get into my DMS at Anniepreneur.
Meredith Matics: Do you want to spell that?
Annie P. Ruggles: A-N-N-I-E-P-R-E-N-E-U-R. Got a little lost in the middle there.
Meredith Matics: I just figured that sounded like a really like nice and fancy way to end it. But I was like, Ugh, some people might ...
Annie P. Ruggles: But now you're making me end it with spelling.
Meredith Matics: No one likes a good spelling challenge.
Annie P. Ruggles: You're going to get some angry comments on that, "I loved spelling", "I hate sales, how dare you"
Meredith Matics: Then this was not their episode. Well, thank you.
Annie P. Ruggles: But I would love to talk to them and I would love to connect with people. And thank you so much for having me on your show.
Meredith Matics: Thank you very much, Annie.
Business Reflections Closing: Please note that these are thoughts and opinions alone. For tax advice, please see your CPA or tax advisor, tax professional for business advice and legal entities. Please see your local business, lawyer, or attorney for advice. And if you'd like to reach out to us for any topics or questions about. Any subject, any episode you can reach us podcast@maticsbilling.com. That's podcast@maticsbilling.com.
For show notes, visit Maticsbilling.com/podcast. If you liked this episode, we want to hear from you. Please hit subscribe. Leave a review and share this episode with your friends, family, and on your social media pages. See you next time!