Episode #10 - Sustainability with Willa’s Oat Milk
Episode Transcript
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I'd like to welcome Christina Dorr Drake, co-founder of Willa's Oat Milk.
Christina, tell me more about what inspired you and led you to start Willa's.
Christina Dorr Drake: Well, um, I've been a plant-based milk drinker for a very long time. I unfortunately am lactose intolerance. So I guess you could say I've become sort of a kind of connoisseur plant based milks. And we were looking at the category and we just were surprised to see that, you know, in a category where people think that they're drinking plants and they're getting, you know, healthy and sustainable products, there really wasn't a purpose driven challenger just coming out and, you know, really standing for [00:02:00] practices around sustainability and health in a big way.
So, uh, we took my grandmother Willa's recipes. She was very ahead of her time in many ways, including the fact that she made oat milk ages ago, and we found a way to make her recipe scale. And we're really thrilled to be launching with our first two products: Willa's Original Unsweetened, which is very close to my grandmother Willa's recipe, and then Willia's Creamy.
And I think, you know, As we, as we sort of dug into the whole plant-based milk category, you know, we were just surprised to see a lot of the ingredients being used. We're also really surprised to find that a lot of the oat milks on the market, the majority of oat milks on the market, uh, don't use the whole entire oat.
So they sort of take the oat, and you know, all the good things you associate with oats. And for the most part, those are discarded. And what you get is mostly oats, sugar, or starch. So we are, you know, excited to be the first and only milk, oat milk to [00:03:00] use the entire whole grain oat. So you get all of the protein and fiber, less sugar from the oats and no food waste in our process.
Meredith Matics: I absolutely love that your company has focused on sustainability, especially like the food industry. That's a really tricky place to have it. Can you share more of the ways that you've incorporated the eco-friendly and sustainable practices into your products?
Christina Dorr Drake: Yeah. You know, our, our values really imbue every single thing that we do. So when you look at our products and our ingredients, we use organic whole grain oats. We, you know, we really didn't want to use a conventional oat that might have glyphosate, which is ground up. It's just not something our grandmother Willa would have wanted in her own milk. So. Uh, we use organic ingredients, non GMO ingredients, um, which are also better for soil health as well as people.
And, um, we also, you know, make sure we use the entirety of every single ingredient. So there's no food waste. Um, you know, knowing food waste is a leading contributor to climate change. That was just super, super important to us.
Meredith Matics: How did you learn about. Food waste being a leader in climate change. And how did that motivate you?
Christina Dorr Drake: I really wasn't even aware of what enormous global issue food waste was until a few years ago, when I saw Anthony Bourdain's documentary "Wasted" about it. Um, I was shocked to learn that when you take food of any kind, even produce, it takes years. And in some cases, decades to decompose in the landfill and it rots over time, it releases greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.
I saw this, Washington post quote that said that if food waste were a country, it would be only after the U.S. and China, in terms of the biggest impact on climate change. And so, um, yeah, absolutely crazy. So. Uh, you know, for us, you know, that's just become a real pinnacle to all of our principles and practices, you know, just making sure that everything we do has the best possible impact in, in the most sustainable impact.
Meredith Matics: For our listeners, do you mind sharing what it means to have a zero waste product process?
Christina Dorr Drake: Yeah. So when you think about, if you've ever made a plant-based milk at home, for example, you might end up with some pulp that, you know, didn't go through your strainer, that would be food waste. Um, or you might have, you know, companies extracting specific parts of an ingredient saying out and discarding it. That's also food waste.
There's a lot of different ways that it can come about. For us, uh, in our process, it means that we are using the entirety of each ingredient and we aren't throwing anything.
Meredith Matics: And what are some of the challenges you've experienced with creating a zero waste process at product?
Christina Dorr Drake: Yeah, well, it's, it's never easy to be the first to do something or to come up with a proprietary process.
Um, I think one challenge that we run up against is, you know, working with our partners. There's often this assumption that we're going to do things the exact same way that everybody else. Is doing them when what we're doing is the opposite of the way everybody else is doing it. And so it's, you know, it's just really important.
I think whenever create a business, you really are clear on your values and you believe in them with conviction and thankfully all of us co-founders and everybody on our team is really passionate about everything that we stand for. And that, you know, shows in all of the actions we take and all of the practices around the business.
Meredith Matics: So, do you have any tips or resources there helped educate you about incorporating sustainability and sustainability, sustainable practices into your business?
Christina Dorr Drake: I have a couple. So one is, I've learned so much from fellow founders on this front. So, um, you know, I know the founder of a, a beer company that upcycles bread and turns it into beer.
Um, I know, you know, another one that takes the, basically the food waste from yogurt and turns it into a new product. And so, you know, so I think, I think one of my favorite things about being an entrepreneur is just how generous the whole entrepreneurial and startup community is just with their time and exchanging ideas and advice.
Um, so that's one thing I've done is I just, I try to find people who have like-minded values. Like-minded, you know, goals and, and visions for their company and see what they're doing and what we can learn from them. The other thing that was really exciting for us this year is we were connected with somebody who recently graduated from Columbia's sustainability master's program.
Meredith Matics: Oh!
Christina Dorr Drake: And she, yeah. Amazing. And she has. All of these ways of kind of helping us quantify the impact we're having, and also figure out the ways in which we can get better and do better and set really specific, measurable goals about around that. So that has just been amazing because she just has all of this insight and you know, this ability to help us set all this stuff up, but equally coming straight out of a program like that, she's just super tapped into everything that is, you know, new and exciting about, you know, sustainable design. And she comes up with so many interesting kind of approaches and ways for us to think about things. I would almost encourage any founder who's trying to find better ways to be more sustainable, to reach out to those programs, because I think, yeah, those students, I mean, they're hungry to, to take what they've learned and apply it.
Meredith Matics: I had no idea that there were college programs dedicated to that, but I think that's like really amazing.
Christina Dorr Drake: I know it's so cool. I wish that existed when I had been in college
Meredith Matics: Or maybe it did, and I had no idea. I have. That just sounds so awesome. So I wanted to touch a little bit based on your marketing. So I know that you have had some history in doing marketing for some really big brands, like Target and Forever 21. How did your past experiences in marketing these big brands help you with the creation and design of your own company?
Christina Dorr Drake: Yeah, it's sometimes I feel like as a marketer, I almost have to, there are so many things that apply so perfectly from my past life working in agencies. And there are so many things that I've almost had to relearn because, you know, starting a new business. It's like you have very little budget, you have very few resources, you don't have teams of people.
So, um, I sort of try to take the, the best things I can learn from other founders who are just super scrappy and then the best things I've learned from kind of working on bigger brands and, you know, working in an agency it's you have this ability to just kind of come in with fresh eyes. You know, no preconceived notions or maybe some hypotheses, but you know, you're not working in the business day in, day out thinking about it all the time.
So you just, you can come in just almost kind of, you know, as a beginner and, and have a totally clean slate to begin with. And then also you have the ability to kind of get to know the customers and get to know their target audience. And really put yourself in those shoes without any biases. I think as a, as an entrepreneur, I've found one of the toughest things is you are living and breathing this all day.
Every day, you are in the weeds, you're in the details fighting fires, and it can be really easy to get super fixated. Um, what's important to you and, you know, the challenges that you've overcome and then try to put that into the messaging and the marketing without really thinking about what, what does the consumer, what is the person I'm selling this to, or my customer or my client, what do they actually care about?
Do they care that I spent all this time, you know, fixing this problem or setting my business up a certain way? Or is that just something I really care about that I'm really proud of? And so I think what I've taken from. My past experience is just constantly reminding myself to try to look at things, not through my own eyes, but through the eyes of somebody who's not so deep in the trenches and try to really ask my, my customers, you know, back when we were doing tasting events, really ask them open-ended questions.
And not try to lead them to the answer that I want them to say, but really be open to them. Maybe giving me an answer that isn't, isn't the thing that I thought we needed to focus on. When we started, we were really focused on artificial ingredients and, you know, not using the same artificials and preservatives that you find in a lot of plant-based milks.
What we found was people were interested in that, but. What they were really interested in was this whole oat aspect of, of what we're doing and how unique that was and how much easier that was to understand than, you know, not using a certain ingredient. And so that, you know, that drove a lot of our messaging.
I, I think I talked to a lot of founders where they'll ask me about marketing and they'll be really fixated on like a certain, you know, functional benefit or functional aspect. And it's like, Yeah. Have you talked to your customers about that and have you figured out what the benefit of that is for them and you know, why they're even buying from you if that has anything to do with it?
Um, I think the other thing that I learned a lot from, from kind of working on these bigger brands is that, you know, it takes, it takes a lot of people, you know, to build a brand like that. And there's a lot of collaboration involved. And so I try to send everything we do, whether it's packaging or, you know, copy for the website or, you know, even some of the things we're doing on social media.
I send it around to friends of mine who worked in marketing or friends of mine were, you know, also plant-based milk drinkers. And, and I get as much feedback as I, as I possibly can. And it doesn't mean I take it all or, you know, all of it aligns with, you know, what I know to be true about what our target audience is looking for.
But if I don't agree with something they tell me, it forces me to think about, am I not agreeing with this messaging because I don't think it's right or I don't like it, or am I not agreeing with it because my customer isn't, isn't going to resonate with it.
Meredith Matics: I really liked what you said there though about in the first part of your answer, where you were talking about. How, you know, as, as business owners, we get it in our head that we've put so much effort and time and resources into a certain aspect of our business. And we feel the need to market that, but that it may not really resonate with our clientele. How do you, or what was your tips to getting past that or really like?
Christina Dorr Drake: Yeah. It's, I mean, it's so easy for any of us to do it. Um, a few different ways. One is one of the first things we did was a survey of plant-based milk drinkers, and we asked them. What are the most important things to you in a plant-based milk and when you do something like that, and you, you really write the survey without any bias or leading questions, you're going to get information. And in some ways, you know, that's the best way to do it because you're not going to be looking at that and say saying things a certain way to try to like, get them on your team.
Meredith Matics: So what's the best thing all men or, yeah.
Christina Dorr Drake: Right. Are organic ingredients important to you? You know, it's yeah, absolutely. And then I think equally, you know, talking to people as much as you can, you know, talking to your customers and asking really open-ended questions. Oh, you know, what is it? Yeah. What was it that first made you interested in us? Oh, okay. Did you realize we do X, Y, and Z as well? Did you realize that we're organic? Is it, does that matter to you? You know, and just trying to keep the questions as open as possible. And it, you know, maybe having somebody who's not, you ask them, you know, um, that always helps, you know, take, take out, take out any of the sort of, um, ego and bias in it.
Meredith Matics: I was going to say, take out the emotion because I think a lot of us as founders are really emotional about our product.
Christina Dorr Drake: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, that's like one of, one of the things that. It allows us. Yeah, exactly. The passion is, you know, it needs to be there, but at the same time, you don't want it to, to hinder your ability to listen.
Meredith Matics: Yeah. All right. So I took a look at your website and your products, and I love, love, love, love your fonts, your colors, all of that. I mean the design and everything was beautiful. So how did you come up with that overall look for your product?
Christina Dorr Drake: So, yeah, it's, it's a bit of a process. We started by taking sort of a competitive audit of the entire category of what, you know, everybody's doing and milk across the board, whether it was an old milk or an almond milk or dairy or whatever.
When we started that process, I was really thinking, Oh, we're going to do white packaging for sure. You know, we want to be really clean and we want to. Stand out. And we want to, you know, demonstrate that we're an elevated brand that we use, you know, better quality ingredients and, you know, we're more premium.
And then as we looked at the category and I saw white and beige everywhere, I, you know, quickly realized that that's not going to stand out at shelf. We need to do something different. I think the other thing that. It really became important when we were talking to buyers on the retail side, was that, you know, we made sure that it was super clear what this product was on the front.
And we tried to be pretty ruthless about, what, you know, what size, um, everything else was and you know, what elements got to be on the front of the package and which ones didn't and buyers have frequently told us they're so glad that oat milk, for example, is printed so big on the packaging because they say so many startups come to them and you, they they've got everything, but what the product is on the front of the packaging, which I can absolutely understand how that would happen.
You know, you're, again, you're focused on all these other things that you're so proud of. So, you know, it was, it was, it was definitely a process between us and our designer and picking a designer who has a lot of experience in creating consumer packaged goods also really helps , you know, also figuring out kind of the hierarchy of things, you know, where does the story need to be evoked? Where did the values need to come through? And then what about the, you know, more functional drivers? How do we make sure those are really clear for somebody who's just looking to kind of understand the nutrition facts or kind of the more functional elements.
Meredith Matics: So tying together your look and your marketing and how beautiful it is, and then your goal of sustainability, have you been able to incorporate sustainable practices into your marketing practices?
Christina Dorr Drake:In terms of, you know, incorporating sustainability in the marketing. I think one of the things that we've been doing that has been the most successful is partnering with other brands that share our values, whether they be around sustainability or also around, you know, using better ingredients, um, being more, plant-based having less sugar, standing for more of an artisnal approach.
And, you know, doing that, I mean, first of all, it's great because you're sort of introducing people who, you know, are your target into your product through a really authentic means, right? You both. Yeah. If you're working with another entrepreneur and you know, that, that imbues trust and authenticity, I think.
It's also just a great way to help people find more products that, you know, just by using them, they're, they're taking small steps to, you know, have a smaller footprint and, and make a more positive impact. Yeah. It's, it's sort of like all ships rise together
Meredith Matics: Great, I mean, I think I'm all about business business and I think as entrepreneurs and as founders, we have to be, we have to rely on those that have similar goals and expectations and, you know, doing what we want. Yeah. To do if we want to be more sustainable than sometimes it's. A limit of what we can do ourselves, but picking another business that has the same goals in mind.
Have you found that your customers have been responsive to your businesses emphasis on sustainability?
Christina Dorr Drake: Definitely. I think people start drinking plant-based milks broadly, usually for, you know, wanting to have a more sustainable impact, maybe trying to have less dairy in their diet or, and, or for health reasons, it's, it's not the primary reason people buy us. You know, if we didn't taste good, if we had like a weird aftertaste or we're really watery or really chalky or something like that, like, I don't think that they would care if we were sustainable. It's like, why drink that? But because we taste good.
And they feel good about the ingredients and they can feel good knowing that it's sustainable and it's having, you know, a more positive impact than maybe something else they would drink. Um, that just makes them feel that much better about it.
I think the sustainability aspect, it really also affects the relationship with the brand. So, you know, knowing that this isn't just something that you're drinking and this, you know, providing some like functional benefits and. Yummy and your smoothie or your coffee, but is, is something that says something about you. And, you know, you're, you're actively supporting a company that's really trying to take things in a more positive direction.
Meredith Matics: So I also want you to highlight how your business is probably had to make some adjustments this year with COVID, as you mentioned, you're not doing tastings and such. Tell me about how you've had to adapt your product launch strategy to the changes of the world right now.
Christina Dorr Drake: We were supposed to launch our business in March right before the lockdown, and we were meant to launch it in coffee shops and offices in coworking spaces. Yes.
Meredith Matics: Oh gosh.
Christina Dorr Drake: So thankfully, yeah, we, um, we were able to expand our strategy into e-commerce. Which, you know, we were already planning on doing, we had been doing a lot of research around Amazon and, um, how we could, you know, continue to, and, we could drive subscriptions on our website and things like that.
Um, but it was an enormous change. We had spent a year and a half getting ready for a launch with coffee shops. We'd built up all kinds of relationships on that side of things. You know, we, we figured out how to get on Amazon. Thankfully, um, a distributor was able to help us do that and we hired an Amazon consultant, which made a huge difference.
Um, it's a very high barrier to entry to start on Amazon. I mean, there's just so much, you have to know, and you really can't make mistakes or you get docked every which way. So having a good consultant lined up was key. And then, um, you know, now we've got all of these great connections in the coffee world and in the culinary and restaurant world, and we are selling to some coffee shops and we're selling to some soft serve cafes and things like that.
And so we're continuing to build those relationships, but thankfully we were able to kind of expand and, and, and do a lot more than, than what we were, what we were originally planning on.
Meredith Matics: What were some of the positive outcomes of having to make that change?
Christina Dorr Drake: Well, we did, we did not see this coming, but oat milk is actually at the height of the pandemic.
Now, I guess we're at a new height, but, you know, last spring, oat milk was selling more than hand sanitizer. I mean, it was selling more than most of the essential items that we were seeing sell out, like papers towels. So, um, we were able to.
Meredith Matics: Is that because it's shelf stable for a certain extent?
Certainly helps. Yeah.
Christina Dorr Drake: Yeah, exactly. It's something that you can, you can buy in bulk and you know, if you are suddenly forced to stay inside and you're not able to run out to get your morning latte and maybe you're cooking at home more, and you're trying to create more healthy habits for yourself and your family. All of a sudden there becomes all of these reasons to have lots of plant based milk around.
Um, the other interesting thing that happened was our first customers started telling us they were making all of these dairy free versions of their favorite recipes, whether it be ice cream or making, you know, dairy free cream sauces for pasta or, you know, all kinds of things. And so that really kinda opened our eyes to the fact that this product, you know, sure, it works great in coffee shops and offices, but there are so many more use cases. So in many ways, you know, the creamy product that we're launching this fall was really inspired by what our first customers were telling us, it's a product that works beautifully in cooking and baking recipes in this kind of an all around champ for anything you want to use it for.
Meredith Matics: And that's really interesting cause I saw how you incorporated on your website like recipes. So were those from your customers?
Christina Dorr Drake: Yeah. A lot of them are so, um,
Meredith Matics: So cool
Christina Dorr Drake: Yeah. And some of them are from, you know, a lot of our [00:24:00] customers have, uh, different dietary preferences, you know, where they're, they're doing certain, you know, elimination, diets, or they have allergies or they have all different kinds of reasons.
For, for drinking plant-based milk and then have a lot of, you know, a lot of them are sort of like micro-influencers who have a lot of followers themselves. So it's really, really wonderful to kind of tap into these niche audiences and fill a gap for them or feel some sort of need for them. And then equally, um, you know, be able to provide something that is, you know, there's a demand for and, and, you know, tap into a whole new community that way.
Meredith Matics: It sounds like you've got a really good connection with your end users, that you know, the people who are buying and utilizing your product, how have you stayed in contact with them during all of this?
Christina Dorr Drake: Yeah, thankfully, I mean, thankfully before, right, well, right before, um, you know, the lockdown in New York city, we were doing tasting events that WeWorks three times a week.
And at each of those, we'd talked to 80 to a hundred people. So we learned so much during that time. I'm so grateful that we did that. You know, you know, sometimes these sampling events, you, you pack up for them and you're like, this is so much work. This is like, you know, it's a lot of effort in the middle of your day.
Um, but now I'm just so grateful that we did that. And then, you know, from that, we built a lot of connections with our first fans. Equally, social media has been, um, in many ways, a real learning for me. You know, when I worked in agencies, we were all about the mega influencers with the huge followings I've since learned from other founders that these micro-influencers who maybe have 500 to 2,500 followers, um, often have really loyal sort of fan bases that, basically their friends are their fans. And so, you know, connecting with them just through direct messenger and saying, Hey, I want to give to some products. Um, and if they want to make something with it, great. And if they don't, that's fine. Most of them do though. Um, and then have them make some cool recipe, share it with all of their friends and fans and then, you know, repost it, it allows you to build a, kind of a deeper connection than you would have through a lot of other kinda you know, more mainstream sort of bigger media tactics. All right.
Meredith Matics: So what is the one piece of advice that you've received that you would want to share with another business owner?
Christina Dorr Drake: I think some of the best advice I've gotten over the past few years was when you're going into say an important meeting or an important conversation, or you're pitching an investor or whatever it is, you often start thinking about like, what are all the things I need to say? What are all the bullets on my list? What are the things I want to make sure that person doesn't forget, you know? And so then you get really focused on what you're going to say versus what you're hearing from them and so some of the best advice I've gotten has been: trust that you will know what to say and just listen and allow the conversation to happen.
And just trust that, you know, if, if there's an opportunity to say whatever that important, important point you were going to make is you'll find a way to say it, but you'll also be able to respond. Um, you'll be able to respond to what that person actually cares about and, yeah.
Meredith Matics: You have a good grasp on listening to the customer, listening to those around you versus getting inside your head and I think a lot of business owners, we struggle with that. You know, we, we have an idea for our company or goals or, you know, we want our product to be used in a certain way. And, and to really be able to take that step back and just listen. I think it's. A good reminder for us. And it seems like you have a really good grasp on that.
Christina Dorr Drake: Thank you. I, I I've worked at it, you know, I think we all get so excited about our businesses, so passionate, so caught up in the day to day. Um, it's something that I just kind of try to constantly remind myself.
Meredith Matics: Well, thank you so much for coming on our show. Where can our listeners find you on social media?
Christina Dorr Drake: Thank you so much for having me, um, on social media, on Instagram, we are @Willas_kitchen. On Twitter, we are just @willaskitchen. Um, and then of course, there's our website where you can find all of our social handles and Pinterest and everything else, which is Willaskitchen.com.
Meredith Matics: Thank you for so much for being here. This was so much fun.
Christina Dorr Drake: It's so fun. I'm so glad that you had me. Thank you so much.
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